Christina said my post did not belong on the quantum touch board, so I decided to delete it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Silvia,

Silvia, please check your PMs.

You like to assume a lot.
And you like to assume the worst.
Just this once, why don't you assume that baby was going to be got by a cat or dog and let it go?

quote:

I still am thinking about it everyday and getting upset about it everyday.

You do know that what you focus on expands, right?
And that you attract that which you obsess over?
You are choosing to agonize over this. Ask yourself why.
With love,
Christina

Birds are prey animals. Cats are predators.

It's how Nature works, it's normal. Predators take out the weak and the sick and the poorly-defended in most cases, which allows the creatures with the best genes and survival tactics to reproduce, while weeding out the weak. It's nature's way, nature's law.

The strong and cunning survive. The weak don't. This strengthens the species. "Predator" used in it's proper definition, in nature, is not a bad word. Dogs & cats are predators. Horses and birds are prey..... it is their role in nature, their destiny.

Why agonize over it? Yes, we hate to see little baby birds get jumped by stray cats, but it is really part of the grand scheme of things, that some are prey. Humans are predators. I am and you are...a predator. It's wonderful that humans try to intervene when possible to save some creatures, and when it works, it's a good thing. But getting upset about it every day is not healthy.

And as for worrying about what the mother catbird "thinks," IMHO that's not a concern. It's a bird, with a birdbrain, & she doesn't "think" that you let her down or disappointed her. I hope you can get past these events and move forward without obsessing about things you cannot control in any case. Carrying a load of "guilt and pain," BY CHOICE, INTENTIONALLY, is unhealthy and abnormal. Why?

Much love to you.

Correction:
I did NOT say it did not belong on this board.
I privately suggested you move it to the "Off Topic" forum; that it didn't belong in the "Quantum-Touch General Discussion" forum since QT wasn't mentioned even once.
Christina

Hi Silvia,

I was very sad to read about what happened with you and the baby bird.

You obviously have a lot of love in your heart for nature and the ability to feel very connected and very deep connections to life around you, in all its various forms.

It is painful that with the ability to make such deep connections, comes the ability to feel deep pain when the connection is broken or lost.

The heart feels what the heart feels. When something that is loved and lost it hurts, that's why it is called heartbreak.

Sometimes these feelings may seem illogical or inappropriate to others - you may even wonder yourself at their intensity or despair at how long they last, but this does not change your reality or the fact that you are in pain.

What you are describing is grief. You are grieving for the loss of something you cared about deeply and there a thoughts and feelings that come along with grief-sadness and guilt are some of them.

Different stages of grief can be overwhelming.

I don't know if you are familiar with a model of grief that breaks it down into different stages of grief - what you can expect?

This link outlines those stages http://recover-from-grief.com/7stages-of-grief.html

You will see that what you are going through is perfectly normal - painful, at times miserable and all the rest, but normal.


You can try to rationalise away your feelings or put them into 'perspective', but that is not how feelings work, nor is it a healthy way to deal with them.

Connecting deeply in the way that you do, with the wee critters of the world, is often minimalised by those who do not connect in quite the same way, just as, though not so often, are connections with the larger critters of the world - like dogs.

Non dog people will often ask dog people why they are so upset over the loss of their beloved pet - when it is after all just a dog? And you know afterall when you get your dog that it will only live 7 - 10 years? So what is your problem? ( I have been spoken to like this).

Loss is loss and the resulting grief is a process.

From what you were describing, it sounded like you were finding yourself "stuck" in a couple of the stages of grief - overwhleming sadness, guilt and what if - and wanting to move on.

There are a number of ways to move through and different ways appeal to different people.

If it feels appropriate, you might like to write a letter to your bird friend and her chick saying all the things you feel in your heart. You could then take the letter outside and burn the letter and visualise its contents evapourating into the universe and its contents being energetically available to both the living mother bird and her chick.

Another thing you could do if you like me chat away to animals is do what is called two-chair role play. You sit yourself down and imagine the birds opposite to you listening. Again you say all that is in your heart, then you go to where you imagined them to be sitting and you sit 'in'them and then you reply as each of the birds to what has been said and then return to your seat. This is amazingly effective and cathartic. What this also gives is closure. This also well for people who have died and you feel that you did not for whatever reason get closure - perhaps they died suddenly, or you were only able to forgive them after they died etc.

Another way, every time you think of what has happened, write. Write until it is all out and then go back to what you were doing. Write everything in your heart. If you do this, you will find that it becomes less intense each time.

Expression is key.

It has been said that there are two ways to grieve - hard and fast - as in feel the feelings, express them and let it out and move through, or slowly and painfully.

Grief also has a habit of turning up when you least expect it. You can be triggered, months even years later by another event and it can all feel painfully fresh again. If this happens to you, trust that each time it does, the time it takes to reconnect with the joys in life will be shorter and shorter.

There are so many ways to go through this - another is to imagine yourself as a little child of 3 or 4, coming to you, crying and telling you this story and how bad she feels and think of all the words you would say and the comfort you would offer. Then play the scene back, but this time saying all the words to yourself and take it in.

What can also happen is that a new loss can trigger feelings of a previous, unprocessed loss or losses. This can also add a lot of intensity what is currently felt and perhaps this is an aspect of what is happening to you.

If we have not learnt how to grieve and to move through, we can be left with a lot of raw unprocessed emotions which get connected with when we experience a new loss. Between losses, if we can not express our emotions in a way which processes them, we end up repressing them and that is where you become depressed.

I came from a family where we did not process grief, we were taught just to shut it off and shut down. This is not healthy.

Soemtimes it is necessary to compartmentalise our emotions to a certain extent in these situations so that we can function, but we must also allow the process.

Tirednes often comes with depression, because it takes a whole lot of energy to keep a hold of all those raw, unprocessed emotions inside.

Through everything, be gentle with yourself, Silvia. You are worthy of the all care and compassion and love you so generously give to others.

Love and light,

Donna

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tiratu,

Silvia,

Since you did also implicitly ask about this aspect of things.....

Maybe Mom brought junior across not for your protection, but for food as you said you have fed her regularly.

She didn't eat after the death of her chick,even though she wanted to - that's why she turned up - but because whatever killed junior was still around.

Your yard was no longer a safe place to eat. Which in turn means it is also no longer a safe place to return to.

All the best.

Love and light,

Donna

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tiratu,

quote:

Originally posted by Certified Public Hugger:
Correction:
I did NOT say it did not belong on this board.
I privately suggested you move it to the "Off Topic" forum; that it didn't belong in the "Quantum-Touch General Discussion" forum since QT wasn't mentioned even once.
Christina

Christina, this is exactly what you wrote:

"Hi Sylvia,
I was wondering why you put your bird story in the "Quantum-Touch General Discussion" forum when you didn't mention QT once.
Would you please move it to "Off Topic" which is much more appropriate?
Thank you.
Christina"

Okay, so maybe you didn't exactly "say" that it did not belong on this board, but isn't that what you implied? Are you the board moderator? If the board moderator did not feel it belonged on this board, they could have easily moved it - I do not know how to move a post. Why did you feel it was necessary to send this message to me privately? You could have easily posted it under my original post.

I indicated in my original post that I was posting because I received much help here the last time I posted. My relationship with animals is a direct result of my experience with QT, Reiki, prayer, etc., so I felt it was relevant and appropriate. Also, there are not many posts on this board so I didn't think it would be a big deal not mentioning QT directly.

But I did what you asked, so I hope you are happy. If anyone is interested in the story, they can send me a personal message and I will share it with them.

Silvia

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ali:

And as for worrying about what the mother catbird "thinks," IMHO that's not a concern. It's a bird, with a birdbrain, & she doesn't "think" that you let her down or disappointed her. I hope you can get past these events and move forward without obsessing about things you cannot control in any case. Carrying a load of "guilt and pain," BY CHOICE, INTENTIONALLY, is unhealthy and abnormal. Why?
[QUOTE]

Thanks for the reply Alice. I will never know really what the momma bird is going through or what she thinks or feels. I do believe she did feel grief to see that her baby died - she was so attentive to the baby and fiercely protective. Animals are much more intelligent and evolved than we give them credit for (BTW, I find the term "birdbrain" very offensive - birds are not stupid creatures!).

I am very sad though that she is no longer around - so I am not only grieving what happened, but also grieving the fact that my catbird friend that has been around for a couple of years is now gone. Considering the love and closeness I feel towards animals, I would not consider these feelings or thoughts to be obsessive, or that what I am feeling is unhealthy or abnormal. I am trying to move forward and through these emotions and writing and posting definitely helps.

Peace~
Silvia

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Silvia,

quote:

Originally posted by tiratu:

Maybe Mom brought junior across not for your protection, but for food as you said you have fed her regularly.

She didn't eat after the death of her chick,even though she wanted to - that's why she turned up - but because whatever killed junior was still around.

Your yard was no longer a safe place to eat. Which in turn means it is also no longer a safe place to return to.

Hi Donna,

Thank you for responding to my post and taking the time to write all those wonderful suggestions in your first post! I have been following many of them already.

I do not believe she led the baby to my yard for food because she was still feeding the baby herself.

I do not believe that the baby bird was killed because if another animal had attacked it, it would have been destroyed and there were no marks on the body nor a single feather out of place.

When I last saw the momma, there were no predators around nor any reason for her to feel unsafe. I can immediately sense when an animal is fearful and I know she was not fearful the last time I saw her.

I know all of the questions I have about what happened will never be answered, I am just trying to find some peace with it all. I don't have anyone in my life who I can talk to about this kind of stuff or who understands my relationship with animals. When I first came to this board and posted about a chipmunk, it really helped me to heal, so when I went through this experience, I thought I would come here again, but I probably should find a more appropriate board, maybe some kind of animal board. I am a vegetarian, so I should probably post there - most times they are more open to animal stories.

I so appreciate every response I have received.

Thanks again.

Peace~
Silvia

Silvia,
I did not read the full story, but am trying to piece what happened together from the other emails. I don't know whether it makes a difference or not, now. Birds are very fragile creatures. This I learned in my years of working as a veterinary technician, several of those with a doctor who treated birds. Birds can die suddenly, just due to stress alone. I have seen pet birds, that have been handled from day one, die in the vets hand, simply due to the stress of being handled. I had something happen with my first Springer Spaniel ( a bird dog). A young robin, barely able to fly was sitting within the chain links of our fence. He took off, and Penny snatched him right out of the air. He died instantly, with no marks, not a feather out of place. Granted, if I had let her hang on to the bird, there would have been marks, but she dropped him when told to. I felt so bad, but there was nothing more I could have done. So, I gently picked him up, and buried him in the flower garden.

My point...don't know...just that things happen outside our control. I understand your attachment, truly. Work thru the grieving process...but what usually helps me is my belief that things are so wonderful on the "other side" that your baby bird's spirit is soaring high, and mom will move on. We had a family of robins build a nest in the pine tree by our deck. We got to see those babies grow, and one day they were gone,and shortly after, mom and dad were gone too. Nature finds a way, and moves on, and you will too, when you are ready.

Hi Silvia,

I am so glad you found some of the suggestions useful.

I had another thought too. If you wanted, you could QT the mother bird's heart for the loss of her chick.

When I QT for grief I sometimes just do the heart, other times I put the head and the heart in a bubble together - for peace of mind around the loss too.

As for my theory of what could have happened - it felt like a looooong shot, which is why I posted it separately. The rationalising poked its head out in the end

I could share some fish stories (and I am guessing a lot of people think even less of fish than they do of birds) that I have tried to rationalise around like I did with yours, because the alternative has been heartbreaking - but my gut always says that the heartbreaking version is the true one.

I too have a lot of feelings about and experiences with animals great and small - right down to some insects that I have had some lovely friendships with. I don't think I share them with anyone either. It hurts to try when it is someone who just won't get it and I do not like to encourage the idea that I am a sandwiche short of a picnic.

I am aware of how things can look from a 'rational' perspective, but I find these experiences a lot like my experiences with QT. Sometimes I have trouble believing them myself.

I hope you are doing better now. If not, trust that time does change everything and hang in there.

(((((((((Silvia)))))))))

Love and light,

Donna

Dear Silvia
a little story dating in the time of shakyamuni Buddha

Once there was an elder woman whose only baby died in her arms. She was so overpowered by her loss that she couldn't
let go of the corpse, she carried it with her everywhere she went.
She could not accept the death so she held on to the corpse.
In the beginning people thought "this is normal, it will pass",
but it didn't, weeks passed by and she kept carrying the corpse with her.
People got worried and one lady adviced her to consult the
Buddha and so she did carrying her death baby with her.

When she arrived she put the baby at the Buddha's feet and
asked Him "please, can you bring my baby back to life, she
is the only thing i have left in this world, you have magical
powers, I know You can do this, please help my baby"

The Buddha smiled compassionately and very kindly replied,
"yes, i will help you but first you have to do something for me.
Take your babygirl with you and knock on every door in this
town and find me a family in which is no grievance or pain
of loss for a beloved one. When you do this, point me out
that family, and then I will bring your baby back to life."

The woman was very delighted and immediately went off for
the search. At the first door she knocked, the family replied :
"sorry love, we are not that family, we have lost our son 2
weeks ago."
The second door "sorry mylady, my father died a year ago"
The 3th door "I am sorry for your loss, but right now we are
arranging the funeral for my sister's family who all died
when her house burnt down last night".

And so she knocked every door of the town. She didn't
find a single family in which there was no pain or grievance
for a lost beloved one. But, along her search, with each door
she knocked she came to understand that death is as natural
as life. And so she returned to the Buddha.

Arriving there, she laid her babygirl at His feet and thanked
him for his advice, asked Him to give His blessing for a
good rebirth for her babygirl and with a compassionate
smile He did.

think it over.

To close, here comes a true story :

I am living in India, and I know this story realy happened.

A yogi, living in the forest was giving teachings to his desiples
right in front of his hut. The students where sitting in a big
circle around him enjoying his stories. Suddenly a young
deer appeared out of the woods and laid herself right in front
of the yogi. It was bleeding very hard, because it had been bitten
in her belly. The yogi used his healing power to stop the
bleeding and to help curing the wound. He did the best he
could. Day after day, he took best of care of the young deer
but she didn't seem to recover as she should.
Then one night, the young deer came to the yogi in his dream
and asked him "I am so greatful for your healing, i have lived
here in these woods breathing the blissfull air because of your
presence but now i have to ask you to let me go. I have
passed my time in this form of a deer and I want to continue
my path, but you are not letting me go. So please, let me
go and give me the opportunity to continue my growth in
my next incarnations."
The yogi understood completely and let go immediately of
his attachment to the young deer, because he knew that
even keeping attached to the energy off a being, could hinder
the being to have a full succesful reincarnation, so he gave his full
blessing to the young deer for its next incarnation and
thanked it in return for the lesson he learned from this event.

lots of love
may all beings be happy

These are wonderful. Thank you!

Yes, Buddha in all his wisdom did not simply tell this woman that dying is a part of life,tell her that everyone in her village has lost someone, ask her any questions,tell her a story, nor make any judgement about how she had behaved so far.

He accepted her as she was and sent her off on a healing journey - to process her grief by sharing muffins, lots of cups of tea and lots and lots of tears with her neighbours, her community.

By meeting people at all the different stages and timelines of grief, she could not only share, but learnt what to expect and that what she was feeling was normal.

Her community hadn't known how to reach out to her and she hadn't known how to or perhaps that she could or should reach out to them.

And the deer did not simply accept her, in the context of animal life, imminent death. She was not ready. She sought help. The yogi did not say when she came - you're a wild animal this is what happens, you should let nature take its course. You are dying, it is time to continue on your path.

He helped her as best he could and when the help was not successful and the deer was ready accept this and to leave the "blissful air of the woods", she thanked the yogi for the time given her and made her request. The yogi also having had the time opportunity to do his best, understood and was also ready to let go.

Lovely grief processes.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tiratu,

very wise stories. loved them.
Holly