Hi,

I'm 21 years old and living in Belgium. For about a year I'm totally into developing myself on a spiritual and energetic level. I started meditating and building up meditation time over time. About half a year ago I got the book Quantum healing and got into that a little but not extremely actively. Only since recently I'm seriously practicing it. As part of my spiritual explorations, I got encountered with mind-altering drugs like LSD, magic mushrooms, Ketamine and MDMA (or ecstacy). In these experiences I saw things with my own eyes that I had heard or read about from spiritual sources. On ketamine I could really feel that everything around me was energy and vibration, and that everything in the cosmos was directly connected. On LSD I could see how nature was alive and how it is so much more enjoyable to live in the moment rather than in your thoughts about the future or past. I can feel the energy of my kundalini surging through my spine, hearing the energy very clearly through my ears.
To make a long story short, they helped me a lot in experiencing sprituality and made me see a lot of quantum fysical phenomena that just sounded as abstract concepts before those experiences.
So because my experiences were good, I kept exploring, and now over the past 6 months I've been tripping about twice a month on average.
I'm serious about this, and for no reason am I doing this just for pleasure. Also, these drugs are not addictive, so if I would know that these drugs are actually bad for me, I would stop using them immediately.

Now, I've always been very interested in hearing an opinion on this from people who do energetic or spiritual work. In my experience these drugs have helped me in waking up the energy and life force in my body, but who am I to say that it's actually good. I can't see if this is actually good for me, or if it puts me completely out of harmony. It would help me a lot to hear the opinion of someone who also has experience with psychedelics, and who knows more about this than me, how it influences your system etc...
Hearing in Alain's biography that he was in the drug scene, makes me think that he would be able to give me an answer, so it would be invaluable if you could tell me your opinion on this, Alain.

If you don't have experience with these drugs yourself, or if you haven't perceived energy changes in users of these drugs, I'm afraid your opinion won't be able to help this thread a lot.

Hi Renaissance,
Welcome to this messageboard.
Well.........this is a simple question with a very complicated answer. You can get a thousand replies with reasons why you should take them and another thousand why you shouldn't.
Actually I don't like to use the words should and shouldn't. First I am neither a user nor an expert. What I'm saying is based on the little experience that I have from my job with health department. It's true that they give you rapid altered states which may feel blissfull and attractive. It's also true that most of them don't cause physical dependence but it is also true that they may cause psychological dependence. There is the probable possibility that they get you on the wrong side of the law.
Considering the many years they have been used for spiritual reasons, I dare say they don't have an attractive track record. Some people ended living only for the experience and nothing in between. The old saying is still valid to us " Make haste slowly " we are so pressured by society that we want instant everything from a coffee to enlightenment.
We as humans are going through the evolution of consciousness. This means that after being trapped by the ego since prehistoric times, an awareness is arising of who we truly are. Part of this is that we dis-identify our true self from the thought-stream. Now we have a choice. We can go either below thought or above thought. It is normal to get below thought when we drift off to sleep. Yet, mostly spiritual growth is about awakening and that is going ABOVE thought.
I may go on rambling for ever but in my humble opinion there are infinite methods and pointers thet are MUCH safer.

I have used (mainly just weed) for 20 years, from my experience drugs can be beneficial in giving a preview of a next level in perception but only in very incidental usage (1 time per year)

the side effects of perception enhancing drugs is the blunting of your normal perception and there is the seed of dependence. This dependence develops very subtle and is a road of illusions that moves away from personal development, not towards it.

Currently i develop sober energy perception and i notice that the real stuff is much more subtle/fine then drug-enhanced perception. I currently think you cannot feel that under influence.

As I know such kind of things effects the mind directly. They slow down conscious mind and awaken up un-conscious mind to a degree that a person starts to see or feel as u do. But u must be aware about that when u start to use such things regularly then it will have a negative effect on your mind plus physical health. So don't make it a regular practice n a routine work.

quote:

Originally posted by nicky:
Hi Renaissance,
Welcome to this messageboard.
Well.........this is a simple question with a very complicated answer. You can get a thousand replies with reasons why you should take them and another thousand why you shouldn't.
Actually I don't like to use the words should and shouldn't. First I am neither a user nor an expert. What I'm saying is based on the little experience that I have from my job with health department. It's true that they give you rapid altered states which may feel blissfull and attractive. It's also true that most of them don't cause physical dependence but it is also true that they may cause psychological dependence. There is the probable possibility that they get you on the wrong side of the law.
Considering the many years they have been used for spiritual reasons, I dare say they don't have an attractive track record. Some people ended living only for the experience and nothing in between. The old saying is still valid to us " Make haste slowly " we are so pressured by society that we want instant everything from a coffee to enlightenment.
We as humans are going through the evolution of consciousness. This means that after being trapped by the ego since prehistoric times, an awareness is arising of who we truly are. Part of this is that we dis-identify our true self from the thought-stream. Now we have a choice. We can go either below thought or above thought. It is normal to get below thought when we drift off to sleep. Yet, mostly spiritual growth is about awakening and that is going ABOVE thought.
I may go on rambling for ever but in my humble opinion there are infinite methods and pointers thet are MUCH safer.

Hey Nicky. I understand what you're saying and appreciate your reply. I can say from my own experiences that I'm not particularily living for this experience. It's just something that I do regularly because I know it's benefiting me, but really I'm not looking forward more to a day that I'm taking this drugs than to any other day. It's just a day that has gotten it's own place in my life, a day that I'm taking a break from other daily stuff. I see it as something like catholic people go to church once a week, I take LSD/mushrooms once in two weeks.
I am aware of some risks, but I'm not sure if I'm aware of all of them. I've definately had some really scary experiences through using these substances, but the general opinion on bad trips is that they bring out underlying fears and emotions, so I believe they're actually some kind of purification, although that's just my intuition.

Also I see myself evolving through the use of these substances. At first it were only positive experiences, but it was clear that on LSD (the only one I take regularly), my thoughts had a lot more power over me than usually. LSD puts your ability to think on steroids, and it was very hard to control at first. If I got into a certain direction of thought, it was very hard to get out of it if I wanted to. But after some experiences I'm getting very much able to control this more, and I feel like controlling my thoughts in daily life costs me no effort at all because I've gone through a much bigger challenge.
I don't know if that makes any sense for people with no experience.

quote:

Originally posted by Arjan:
I have used (mainly just weed) for 20 years, from my experience drugs can be beneficial in giving a preview of a next level in perception but only in very incidental usage (1 time per year)

the side effects of perception enhancing drugs is the blunting of your normal perception and there is the seed of dependence. This dependence develops very subtle and is a road of illusions that moves away from personal development, not towards it.

Currently i develop sober energy perception and i notice that the real stuff is much more subtle/fine then drug-enhanced perception. I currently think you cannot feel that under influence.

Hey Arjan. Thanks for your reply. I believe weed and psychedelics are not very much comparable. I have used weed for one year a few years ago, but I felt like this was really bad for me. I also didn't have any significant intellectual or spiritual experience on it. I felt like it just robbed me of energy.

As for blunting of perception. I believe it's just the opposite. Before I used LSD, I was a very hasty person, not seeing the beauty of for example flowers and the sky. When I had the experience of LSD, where I saw the beauty in all these things, I was also able to see the beauty of it without being on LSD. Also I feel like I'm much more able to feel energy through this, without being on the substance at all.
I'm having much more subtle perceptions in my daily life than ever before.

Hi

Give it another twist:

You got a TV ( the experience) and a remote control (drug).
Now the drug is the experience and the TV is the control.

Does that make any sense?

Einar

quote:

Originally posted by Aqib..:
As I know such kind of things effects the mind directly. They slow down conscious mind and awaken up un-conscious mind to a degree that a person starts to see or feel as u do. But u must be aware about that when u start to use such things regularly then it will have a negative effect on your mind plus physical health. So don't make it a regular practice n a routine work.

This is exactly what I want to know. In what way does it have a negative influence on the mind. I'm also aware that the general view of society is that it has a negative influence on the mind and body, but when you're able to see a little bit out of the little box, it's obvious that the common view of society isn't always accurate.
Through official testing, it has been proven that LSD has no physical negative effect on the body, but then again these tests are done in a conventional way. (not toxic in any way etc...) This doesn't mean that I trust them completely, because those tests are not done by a person who can see and feel harmony of the energy of a person.

you seem so convinced about the positive effects but there really is no energy master who is also a regular drug user. There must be a reason for this

Some quick things to think about:

EVERY addict has said "What I am doing is not addictive." Or, "I (underlined) will not get addicted." The implication is that those other guys, those mere weaklings, those deluded people, are addicts, but not ME. "I am too smart to get addicted."

Ketamine is a veterinary anesthetic that is very seldom used in human anesthesia practice because of the high incidence of "bad trips," which have caused psychological damage and flashbacks.

"Spiritual" refers to matters of the Spirit.

I'll leave it there. Blessings on your journey, wherever it leads.

quote:

Originally posted by Arjan:
you seem so convinced about the positive effects but there really is no energy master who is also a regular drug user. There must be a reason for this

Yeah, that's what I guess too, that there must be a reason. But the thing is no one seems to be able to give this reason =/. True, I'm experiencing positive things, but that doesn't mean that I'm actually convinced that it's overall good for me, that's why I'm making this thread

quote:

Originally posted by Ali:
Some quick things to think about:

EVERY addict has said "What I am doing is not addictive." Or, "I (underlined) will not get addicted." The implication is that those other guys, those mere weaklings, those deluded people, are addicts, but not ME. "I am too smart to get addicted."

Ketamine is a veterinary anesthetic that is very seldom used in human anesthesia practice because of the high incidence of "bad trips," which have caused psychological damage and flashbacks.

"Spiritual" refers to matters of the Spirit.

I'll leave it there. Blessings on your journey, wherever it leads.

Ali, thanks for your reply. I think there's no reason to be defending myself here wether I'm addicted to the psychedelic experience or not, so I won't be replying on that part.

I understand and know that ketamine has caused damage in a lot of people, but I've done quite some research on this myself. It's with lots of things in life that they can cause damage when used in an incorrect or irresponsible way, and especially true with ketamine. When used in the right setting, the right intensions of usage and right state of mind, bad trips are very rare. Also from many different official sources it's commonly known that psychedelics don't really create psychological problems, but they just bring the dark stuff to the surface if there's any of that.

Maybe I should make my question more clear. I've already done extensive research in terms of common known risks of psychedelics, reading scientific books about them, so that's not what I'm asking here. I'm asking this question here because I specifically want to know about the (life) energy aspect of it, a side that's unknown to conventional scientific methods.

I don't know if there are people asides from Alain Herriott who have experience with it themselves, but if there would be, sharing your experiences would be of great value to me.

One of the main problems with taking a drug is you need the drug to attain the state. As the drugs are usually not pure but cut with things like strychnine and speed to lower the cost and increase yields. This makes for erratic experiences by the users and some nasty side effects as well at times.

Beyond that while the after affects certainly are there for a while, eventually this fades and you have the memory of it rather than the direct experiences. I'm not talking days, weeks or even months here but over the years you again get caught in the drama of life and things simply fade. Again there is the memory and that does carry over a bit but you must again use the drug periodically in order to maintain a fresh memory.

On the other hand, meditation among other techniques for personal growth and awakening if you will are self directed and while it takes practice to repeat them, they are always there. There is a gradual opening rather than the rush of the drug. You are able to see the steps that get you there and they are then part of your life. Can this too fade with time? Yes if there is no practice continued. However there are many fewer side effects. It is a slower process but an eminently more elegant experience and the depths one can get to, in my experience, are much better.

To me drugs are a poor substitute for awakening. When I was 19-20 years old I had no idea of the possibilities that were out there. I experimented and found that that scene was just to limited. That all led me to meditation and eventually to understandings that were gradual but repeatable and sustainable. They also continue to grow and I continue to learn. I even came remember most every part of the journey.

That is not to say that there are not ups and downs to meditation as an entry point to awakening, it too has its ups and downs, but the side effects are usually positive not at the whim of whoever made the product.

Whatever you decide, enjoy the journey. I can say that almost 40 years after those initial experiments all my experiences have led me to who I am today. I never regretted changing to meditation and I am still on a journey of amazement and possibility.

Thanks Alain, that are definately some things I will think about.
I appreciate your reply.

That's great what Mr. Alain said. But i want to ask a question to u that why r u insisting too much on usage of drugs ?? It felt like that u need some support from other Q.T fellows about what u do.

As I know such kind of things effects as like coffee, tobacco or alcohol that u will have no immediate defect of any kind but these kind of things always have even very slowly if not ‘ at time ‘.

..My personal experience – I do smoking for almost 18 years n never feel even high BP problem, a most common effect of smoking. So I never bother any advice oral or written about n then 7 years earlier I have a heart attack suddenly without any alarm from my physical health condition. Thank God I reached hospital in time n have no damage to my heart.
After that I never thought as Ali said “ The implication is that those other guys, those mere weaklings, those deluded people, are addicts, but not ME. I am too smart to get addicted / damaged " .

So asking u again that don't make it a regular practice n a routine work.
And asking u this again that why r u insisting too much on usage of such drugs n items ??..