(EDIT on 2007-03-16:

In short, I'm trying to design and conduct a controlled experiment to verify that running energy into a(n edible) liquid actually changes its physical, measurable properties (for example, taste). So far, the most important possibly confounding factors that I've come across are temperature differences of the liquids at the time of tasting, as well as possible expectation/suggestion bias.

The task of doing a proper experiment has been (surprisingly) far from trivial. In most of my earlier postings, there have been no controls for taste change due to temperature change. That is, the liquid warms up when you hold the glass in hand, or even put your hands near it. Also, in settings with distance-charging, if the glasses are in different rooms (for example, to keep them from entraining with each other if they sit side-by-side), there may be a discernible temperature change.

please check out the entire thread if interested in details)
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Hi all,

Here are some personal experiences that support what Richard Gordon already says in the QT book.

Pardon the long-ish description, but I guess this is what a management science researcher does during his summer holidays :-)

============= Summary ==========
Judging by single-blind tests conducted by a single subject, charging red wine, even for a short time, seems to slightly change its taste.

The results are statistically significant with the likelyhood of similar results occurring 1:100 due to chance.

The experiments continue.
=============================

Many healing modalities, including QT, say that "charging" drinks (e.g. wine, water, etc.) changes their taste.

I have since the beginning of April 2006 tried to evaluate this claim through conducting single-blind taste experiments.

To keep the methodology description short:
First, I ran energy into one of two similar glasses for 3-15 minutes (varied for different experiments). In each experiment, I blind-tasted the pair of glasses, one containing charged, and the other non-charged red wine, for several times. After each tasting, the glasses were mixed again. Also, possible differences in the surface level were evened out, and other possible tell-tale signs from which the glasses could be recognised were removed (or at least attempted to).

Based on 10 different experiments, and a total of 59 tastings, I was able to correctly identify a taste (or smell) difference 38 times. The P value for this result (considering a 50-50 success ratio of simple guessing) is 0.0092.

In other words, the likelyhood of obtaining a similar result by chance is little under 1 times in 100.

Half of the 10 experiments were more "successful" than the others. At this point I won't speculate why (*). Taking the less "successful" experiments, we end up with statistical figures that seem the result of chance.

However, taking the more "successful" experiments, we have a total of 29 trials, of which 25 were successful; here P <= 0.0000076, that is, such a result would occur by chance about 8 times in a million (if I counted the zeroes correctly :-)

As a summary, judging by single-blind tests conducted by a single subject (myself), charging red wine, even for a short time, seems to slightly change its taste. In addition, the results suggest that with proper liquids (such that the taste changes a noticeable amount) easily as well as experienced people doing the charging, I believe that the effect could, even under double-blind conditions, be fairly easily demonstrated.

I'll report more results as I get them. Also, reports of similar experiences are appreciated!

SeaLion

(*) The single most successful experiment, where I identified the taste difference correctly 9 times out of 10 trials (P < 0,0001) tthe wine was charged by at least myself and Luvshelper (via a chat room session) for five minutes. The more, the merrier...? :-)

Also, I seemed to notice that the 'effect' of charging sometimes 'weared off' in ten minutes or so. In practice, in the first four or five trials, the difference was noticeable, but after that it was getting harder to tell.

It may simply be be that my taste buds get "numb" in the process.

Or, for all I know, the contents of the glasses "tune into" each other as the glasses sit next to each other in the experimental setting...

However, in the most successful experiment, I know that the taste difference remained even after a couple of hours.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SeaLion,

Hmm...comments on this one, anyone? Similar experiences?

Especially I would be interested in finding out what liquids' taste reacts the most easily to charging (Richard says white wine & grape juice in the book; haven't tried them yet).

Hi SeaLion,

Yes, I would vouch for the white wine. I did the basic course with Deborah in London recently and on the Sunday, she said that she had bought a bottle of white wine that cost about £2.10, the cheapest she could find really. She also had grapefruit juice too.

She poured out two cups of each - I had the white wine and we all started charging together, adding in a couple of fire breaths. Think we were charging for at least 3 to 4 mins. Anyway, I smelt it and it had a lovely fragrant smell to it, fruity and fresh. I tasted it and it was quite reasonable wine with no after taste at all. We then tried the other uncharged cup. It definitely did not smell as nice and was very rough and ready with an after taste that made it virtually undrinkable in comparison.

The people who had the grapefruit juice said that the charged cup was not bitter at all. They said that the uncharged cup was very bitter in comparison.

My next trick is to buy a can of coke and see what happens with that. Some people say running energy through it can cause it to flatten.

well my kids love to charge my pepsi, it looses all of its fizz, yuk. and they just laugh at me as im spitting it half way across the table.

then my 9 year old love to do the hot chocolate it accually removes the sugar. hum?

i pesonally love to do the water it makes it really smooth and very paletable.

my 12 year old makes the best coffee, i always ask her if she runs QT into it and she just grins at me and says i put my special love in it(and she leaves it at that). But it really does taste smoother than my coffee. my husband accuses me of making hair growing coffee in the morning, well i need it to wake up lol,
he wants coffee that sings him awake good morning i want one that says GOOD MORNING!!! lol

now with milk i swear it makes it sour. at least there is a taste change i cant put my finger on it.

anyway have fun no matter what the out come just dont stand up to fast after to much wine lol.

Well, I tried the coke test. Tasted it before and after running energy. It tasted very fizzy beforehand and after running energy it was not totally flat, but was well on the way to being so. Just that taste that it was slightly off.

Anybody tried with a can that has not yet been opened?

A pair of cans, with one of them charged should provide an easy setting for double-blind testing, I mean tasting :-)

SeaLion

SeaLion,

I personally would be afraid to do an unopened can of pop or soda. For fear of it exploding on me.

I can't touch those philsbury dough boy pop open cans in the freezer section, they explode in my hands, I have to have my kids pick them up and put them in the cart for me.

So I can only imagine what a pop can could do. I guess im thinking backwards, with pop it takes the fizz out not activates the yeast. Maybe it would suck the can inwards??? who knows?

But I'll let you do the experiment and let you report back. LOL

Linda

SeaLion, I've had the same experience as Cranial Therapist. I've tried cheap red wine, with no noticeable difference before and after. But when I charged cheap white wine - WOW! VERY noticeable difference.

I never drink wine, and I'm no connoisseur of wine (in fact, I actually had to look at my dictionary to see how to spell "connoisseur" ), but the difference between the charged cheap white wine and the uncharged sample was undeniable.

I have used that same bottle in my workshops for the last couple months, storing it in the fridge until the next class. Like Deborah, we each charge one cup for 3-4 minutes with a couple of fire breaths tossed in. I have the students place their other (uncharged) cup on the floor to prevent the uncharged sample from "tuning into" the charged sample. Students say the charged wine tastes bad. When they taste the uncharged sample, they say, "YUCK...from bad to WORSE!"

So, for me, the cheapness of the wine seems to make the most noticeable difference. I also notice that tap water tastes much different after charging it. Charging bottled water is not as noticeable.

Peace,
Rick Garzaniti
Practitioner and Instructor

"The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese." - Jon Hammond

Today, I managed to do one more experiment;
two glasses, with 1dl Hungarian 'Magyar' white wine (among the cheapest you can get here) in each. EDIT: Though, later on I noticed that Magyar is semi-dry, not dry.

One of the glasses was charged for 15 minutes, from a distance of 1m. Also, I was assisted by 2-3 people from a chat room session of 11.

Out of 13 trials, I "recognised" the difference correctly in 7, yielding P <= 70%, i.e., this result certainly seems to have obtained due to chance.

In other words, the taste difference was not noticeable in this experiment.

Combining this data with my earlier experiments, I have now "recognized" a taste difference correctly 45 times out of 72 trials, from a total of 11 different experiments.

This yields P <= 1,2%, that is, pure 50-50 guessing would obtain as good results as these about 1 times out of 100.

So, the experiments continue. I guess next I'll make it a bit easier and do a hands-on charging with the same substance, perhaps Thursday evening.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SeaLion,

quote:

Originally posted by SeaLion:
Today, I managed to do one more experiment;
two glasses, with 1dl Hungarian 'Magyar' white wine (among the cheapest you can get here) in each.

One of the glasses was charged for 15 minutes, from a distance of 1m. Also, I was assisted by 2-3 people from a chat room session of 11.

Out of 13 trials, I "recognised" the difference correctly in 7, yielding P <= 70%, i.e., this result certainly seems to have obtained due to chance.

In other words, the taste difference was not noticeable in this experiment.

Combining this data with my earlier experiments, I have now "recognized" a taste difference correctly 45 times out of 72 trials, from a total of 11 different experiments.

This yields P <= 1,2%, that is, pure 50-50 guessing would obtain as good results as these about 1 times out of 100.

So, the experiments continue. I guess next I'll make it a bit easier and do a hands-on charging with the same substance, perhaps Thursday evening.

72 trial tests, hum????? lol... you should be well on your way from staggering drunk to crawling. can you taste anything after about the first 2-3 tests? lol... How many gallons of this cheap hungarian wine did you buy to test this way? just joking with you.

Just think of it now... buy the cheapest wine at the cheapest price and charge the wine with QT and pass it off as the really good stuff, you'd be the hit of the party. lol

Linda

quote:

can you taste anything after about the first 2-3 tests?

A crucial question, and I was wondering about this in my first post a couple of months back.

Only today, however, after reading your reply, I realised that I might now have enough data to examine this further (so thank you!!!)

Taking the first four trials from each experiment, I ended up with 28 hits / 36 trials.

Now, doing the binomial math again, we have a 99,9844% probability that I could indeed identify a taste difference between charged and non-charged liquids.

That is, pure 50-50 guessing would obtain a similar result (or better) 1,5 times in 10,000 (which certainly supports the notion that the phenomenon is real... :-)

In most of the experiments, the point after which I had trouble tasting the difference did not, however, come after a similar amount of trials.

This might suggest that in some of the experiments, the taste difference was more obvious; or, something else...

quote:

you should be well on your way from staggering drunk to crawling

Dear Linda, perhaps you underestimate the capability of a Finn to shrug off the effects of substances less potent than home-made vodka...

Anyhow, the experiments continue!

quote:

Originally posted by SeaLion:

quote:

can you taste anything after about the first 2-3 tests?

A crucial question, and I was wondering about this in my first post a couple of months back.

Only today, however, after reading your reply, I realised that I might now have enough data to examine this further (so thank you!!!)

Taking the first four trials from each experiment, I ended up with 28 hits / 36 trials.

Now, doing the binomial math again, we have a 99,9844% probability that I could indeed identify a taste difference between charged and non-charged liquids.

That is, pure 50-50 guessing would obtain a similar result (or better) 1,5 times in 10,000 (which certainly supports the notion that the phenomenon is real... :-)

In most of the experiments, the point after which I had trouble tasting the difference did not, however, come after a similar amount of trials.

This might suggest that in some of the experiments, the taste difference was more obvious; or, something else...

quote:

you should be well on your way from staggering drunk to crawling

Dear Linda, perhaps you underestimate the capability of a Finn to shrug off the effects of substances less potent than home-made vodka...

Anyhow, the experiments continue!

nope never took that in consideration though. I do know after a few drinks the taste buds are less sensitive. Just have fun its all fun to experiment with

Linda

Just a quick thought here. Charging wine at a distance is very different than the local charge you get with your hands. I find a far greater change due to touching the glass. Dry white wines seem to be easier to shift as well.

New results from last weekend, this time I worked on grapefruit juice.

====================================
METHOD: Palms & fingers touching the glass, together with Nuppu the baby (to keep her entertained :-), <5min charge, 4/4 breathing, not very deep, 12 single-blind comparisons w/non-charged juice

RESULTS:
- 12/12 trials identified correctly, yielding P<=2,4*10^(-4) ( = 2,4 times out of 10000)
- The charged juice tasted smoother and less stingy

DISCUSSION:
That was easy! However, could it be possible, that the taste is altered due to the slight temperature change when holding the glass?

So, I put both of the glasses into the freezer and kept there for 20min in an attempt to level out possible temperature differences.

After this, could identify 7/8 trials correctly (P<3,1%). I had to stop testing when noticed that the surface level in the glasses had become uneven. A taste difference was still there, but this time, the non-charged juice tasted less stingy!?

I also conducted another experiment, 5min charging, with only the tips of my fingers touching the glass-to-be-charged, resulting in no discernible taste difference (2/4 hits, stopped as I realised that I could not tell them apart)

CONCLUSION:
Based on this experiment, holding the glass to-be-charged with both hands (with both fingers and palms touching) seems to produce a discernible taste difference. Fingertips-only did not this time produce a taste difference.

It is possible that the slight temperature change in the charged juice may contribute to the taste difference. However, the controls I did afterwards for the palm+fingers experiment (i.e. the freezer) make it seem unlikely that such a temp difference would be a decisive factor here.

In conclusion, these experiments provided evidence in support of the phenomenon, at least using the palms+fingers hold. However, future experiments should be designed to rule out the possibility of taste alterations due to temperature change.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SeaLion,

Since my last posting, I've conducted 13 more experiments, with a total of 121 trials.

3 of the experiments were done with grapefruit juice, 1 with dry cider, 1 with white wine, and 1 with non-alcoholic beer. The rest were done with tap water.

The ones in which I controlled for the temperature are the most interesting, so I'll discuss only them (all were done with tap water):

#1: P < 2.4*10-6, where dT (that is, the temperature difference between the liquids) > 0,5' (degrees centigrade)
#2: P < 3,1*10-4, where 0.2' < dT < 0.5'
#3: P < 1,3*10-3, where dT < 0,2'
#4: P < 0,25, where dT < 0,8'
#5: P < 0,13, where dT < 0,2'
#6: P < 7,9*10-6, where dT > 1'
#7: P < 1,6*10-4, where dT < 1'
#8: P < 0,31, where dT < 0,1'

So, the data so far does not rule out the possibility that the taste difference is actually caused by the temperature difference.

A hands-on 2min charging of the glass changes the temperature of the liquid about 1'. Also, a 10cm -distance charge for 15min changes it by approximately the same amount, which was a surpise for me! And, a temperature difference of 1' centigrade was quite noticeable by taste (and with a little practice, I noticed it even when holding the glass in hand).

So, there is reason to suspect that the temperature can be a confounding variable here. My earlier data should also be disregarded, since the experiments were not controlled for temperature.

At this point, I feel somewhat disappointed. What if the setting in the basic workshop (as I haven't been to one yet myself) is such that the glass-being-charged warms up that 1'?


Then, it would, at least according to my experiments, be no surpise if the taste is different....

(edit 7.10.2006: just finished watching the video workshop; the setting seems such that the wine gets warmed up, and likely, the taste is also affected by the warm-up. But, should a 1-3' warmer stale wine taste so much better than the non-warmed stale wine as it appears? Probably not, but have not yet tried this out for myself...)

Any insights are greatly appreciated!

And meanwhile, the experiments continue.

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